Author Topic: uhhhh...  (Read 1977 times)

Offline lykos33

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uhhhh...
« on: March 10, 02:08PM »
I guess it's time to show my ignorance or my desire to learn.....What is the definition or difference between "spey", "dee", and just a "salmon fly"? I know there has to be a web page that thoroughly discusses and describes each..but I aint found it yet..
Murray
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Mike

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 02:44PM »
They are all just different styles of salmon flies Murray...Speys and Dees (and classic feather wings) originated in the British Iles and have changed very little over the last 100years...nice when tied but IMO hairwings fish much better and are more practical.

Offline Salmon Seeker

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 02:49PM »
I guess it's time to show my ignorance or my desire to learn.....What is the definition or difference between "spey", "dee", and just a "salmon fly"? I know there has to be a web page that thoroughly discusses and describes each..but I aint found it yet..
Murray


As Mike eluded to, Spey and Dee flies did originate in the British Isle, Scotland to be specific. Dee flies originated on the Dee River and Spey flies on the Spey. Typically spey flies have a mallard or turkey wing set low and tented, while Dee flies have a split wing or "delta" wing. Both employ swept back long flowing hackles, but the basic difference is the place of origin and most notably the wing style.

Offline kbranch

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 02:54PM »
great question, cause I wanted to know aswell! lol  good info salmon seeker!

Offline lykos33

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 03:01PM »
So if I use any long flowing type of hackle wrapping the body it doesn't matter, as long as I either "tent' the wing or "delta" them to make a dee? Is there any difference in the ways or situations they are used while fishing? I agree with mike that the hairwings are probably more practical as far as building in quantity and in acquiring the material...but some of you guys on here have lit a fire under my tail every time I look at your flies....
Murray
"If fishing is like religion, then fly-fishing is high church."

~by Tom Brokaw~

Offline lykos33

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 03:04PM »
Damn Kevin, you're half my problem when I check out the new post..."open new post from kbranch"...."oooohh , I wanna try that!!!" :o
"If fishing is like religion, then fly-fishing is high church."

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Offline Salmon Seeker

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 03:05PM »
Actually I misspoke a little there. The Dee is actually in Wales I think.

Offline Salmon Seeker

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 03:17PM »
So if I use any long flowing type of hackle wrapping the body it doesn't matter, as long as I either "tent' the wing or "delta" them to make a dee? Is there any difference in the ways or situations they are used while fishing? I agree with mike that the hairwings are probably more practical as far as building in quantity and in acquiring the material...but some of you guys on here have lit a fire under my tail every time I look at your flies....
Murray


You can get really caught up in the technical definitions if you want. Some of the hard core spey guys will get all in a tizzy if you call a fly a "spey" fly if the hackle doesn't start at the third wrap of tinsel, if the wings aren't mallard flank, or if you weren't actually sitting on the bank of the River Spey while tying it. There have been so many patterns invented that are now called "spey" flies that as long as you have nice long hackle and a tented wing, you can call it a spey. Same goes for the delta wing on a fly you call a Dee.  It doesn't have to be a traditional Lady Caroline to be a spey fly anymore in my opinion.
 I don't fish them other than one shrimp pattern which is sort of a spey fly so I can't really say when to use them. However, they are meant to evoke the profile of a prawn, so Fall seems like a good bet to me. I have no doubt that a fresh summer fish would eat one as well though. There are no hard and fast rules for flies and seasons.

Offline lykos33

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 03:36PM »
Thanks S.S. , I did find an educational "tutorial" on the FAOL site by Ron Lucas, he pretty much said the same thing you did. So now I have my info from a good Maritime source and from another well known expert in the field. I had no idea they were developed to imitate shrimp or prawns...learn something every day :D
Murray
"If fishing is like religion, then fly-fishing is high church."

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Offline mcmutt

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 07:28PM »
There's a few good classic books that delve into the flies as well, The Salmon fly by Kelson, Spey Flies & Dee Flies by John Shewey(which I am lucky to have personalized by the author & a few of the tiers in the book), as well as patterns ina few other books.  Dee wings set flat on top of the hook tend to scissor in the current when stripped slightly.  From an old Atlantic Salmon Journal I had in the 80's, it showed a few classic flies as well as the general shape of a spey fly beside a shrimp & a few other crustaceans, showing what they may have been trying to imitate.  If it works, fish it.  Nuff said.

Offline emac

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 09:42AM »
That covers it right there, Spey and Dee are just a style of fly. They each have their own elements, wings, lack of a tail on speys, dark colors etc. At the end of the day you can tie this style any way you like to fit your fishing style and have them work for you. They are incredibly classy and a lot of fun to tie, but the wing set can be a pain in the rear.
Try a few and you'll soon be "hooked".

Offline the caddis

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 07:53PM »
great question I wanted to know as well, very interesting, I love learning the history about flyfishing as much as I love tying and fishing them
its not always  about the catching

Offline mcmutt

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 08:15PM »
Caddis, as well as others on here, a good spot to find the old out of print books is www.archive.org.  In the search box, type in "flies, artificial",  "salmon flies", "trout flies",  "Salmon fishing", "wet flies".  Books like Kelson, Hale, Pryce-Tannatt, Fitzgibbons(Ephemera)  right back to Dame Julianna Berner & Isaak Walton.  There's lots of info in there on spey & dee flies, esp in Kelson's The Salmon Fly.

Offline the caddis

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 09:26PM »
good to know thanks mutt
its not always  about the catching

Offline Speckles

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Re: uhhhh...
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 12:07PM »
"You can get really caught up in the technical definitions if you want. Some of the hard core spey guys will get all in a tizzy if you call a fly a "spey" fly if the hackle doesn't start at the third wrap of tinsel, if the wings aren't mallard flank, or if you weren't actually sitting on the bank of the River Spey while tying it."


And in this situation using the word guys is likely just being technical.
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